Today my son brought home a flyer about Cub Scouts. I'm going to try to keep this short, simple and too the point. (you realize that is NOT going to happen, right?)
I want to first make it clear that I have nothing personally against the Cub/Boy Scouts. I think the organization has done some really great things and even helped a lot of boys. I do, however, have an issue with them recruiting on government run school property and using government money!
They discriminate against homosexuals, females & atheists... now, there is nothing wrong with that. They are a private organization and therefore have every right to discriminate. They should have every right... Example: the "He Man Woman Hater's Club" should not have to allow women (or gays or atheists if they disagree with them and none of the other memebers are). The trick is, once you use govt. school property or accept govt. funding you have to abide by a different set of rules and you lose some of your rights. For example, if I want to form an organization for people who all like the book "Flowers for Algernon" (The best book ever) I can do this. If I want to only allow in this private group only people who like this book who were born on the 13th of the month (insert whatever minority or majority you wish here, i.e. orientals, blacks, whites, lutherans, blondes, etc) I have the right to do this as well. Now, if I need money to build our clubhouse and ask my buddy Norm (insert whatever other individual, group or government) for the funding he can agree with stipulations such as he will give me the money, but I have to allow ANYONE to become a memeber. Now the choice is up to me... is it worth changing my rules to get the funding? This is a choice you should have to make, yet the BSA isn't held to these standards.
Below is a video from a couple years ago of a mother who just found out the Scouts didn't want her son as a member because she is an atheist.
Now, as I stated earlier... they have every right to believe this way and to not accept her son as a member (or do they really? After all, they are recruiting on school property). But I think her video raises some awareness for people who do not realize this.
Penn & Teller did an episode of their award winning show, "Bullshit", on this topic a few seasons back. I actually found the episode (in three parts and with Spanish subtitles) on YouTube. I posted them below so you can not only hear people way more educated and with better research but you can also maybe pick up a second language in the process:
I really don't think there is much I could say on this topic after that. Maybe kinda like how some comics don't like following a guitar comic... not me, mind you, I have a good buddy who is a guitar comic and has opened for me on many occations. Maybe I should encorporate a guitar in my act. Er, I mean, I should encorporate my guitar in my act more often (sorry, wrote my guitar off on taxes as a prop)... I have often thought in the past of bringing diapers on stage and see if I could write them off as well.
If you would like to look into the Cub Scouts (to research, become a member or start a troop) go to: http://www.joincubscouting.org For research purposes you simply have to click on their values statement page that lists the 12 lifelong values they claim to teach. (note, nowhere on there is tolerence)
I think my family can not enjoy camping just fine on our own without a group of people to not enjoy camping with. Pluse do I really want my son to know knots that I can't untie?
Thank you for the enlightenment! I know those knots too!
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting presentation you've made. There may be some truth to what you've said, when you look at the scouts as a whole. Just like with many Chritian faiths, there are those that never really got the message that's right there in front of their faces. I think the same may be true with the scouts. It is based around values that originated from Christian teachings.
ReplyDeleteAs a result, there are those that might think it is necessary to block those, or the parents of those kids, that don't fit their version of what those values are supposed to mean. Whether you would like to hear it, (or not) however, it is my experience that what you find out in the field is quite a different matter. My son is a scout. He has a disability that frequently causes him a great deal of difficulty and pain. The understanding and consideration that he has been shown, from the leadership within his pack amazes me sometimes. If these are the evil Christians that are turning away the unholy and perverted, that you have pointed out, they are doing a good job at concealing it. No one has ever asked me whether or not I am a Christian, which I am not. I also know of women that are lesbians, with children that are scouts,that have never been challenged about an unspoken truth that even a blind man would have difficulty not being aware of. Yes, there are those individuals that you have taken the time to point out to us. But...at the same time, there are those individuals(and I choose to think it is the majority)that are involved in scouting because they see it as a place where their boys can go and learn things and values that are, overall, positive, in a world where they are becoming increasingly more and more difficult to find.
One of our new parents, from last year, had the nerve to wear his world religions t-shirt to one of our pack meetings. I guess we should have kicked him out right then and there, while we had the chance...cause you know that isn't a Christian viewpoint. Now it's to late, however, because he went and made himself a productive member of our pack...the heathen...but then again...his son is a pretty cool scout. I guess we can keep the dad around for the boys sake. Besides...the dad actually is pretty good with commitees. Take care...and please try to remember that prejudice is a many faceted thing and it doesn't always come at you from the direction that you are expecting it to come from. Don't let it come up behind you and hit you in the back of the head.
This is what I like... now we have a conversation going on. I will try to hit each of your points, or at least most of them... the major ones I hope.
ReplyDelete"That's an interesting presentation you've made. There may be some truth to what you've said, when you look at the scouts as a whole."
There is truth to it or I would not have written it out. I mentioned in my post that I am talking about the scouts in general and there may be individual packs that don't follow the organizations "guidelines" (for lack of a better term)
"Just like with many Chritian faiths, there are those that never really got the message that's right there in front of their faces. I think the same may be true with the scouts. It is based around values that originated from Christian teachings."
That is kind of my whole point and issue here... Actually if I am correct the scouts were not a religious based organization until the Mormon church got hold of them (see the Penn & Teller's Bullshit episode for better info on this). I also have an issue with what the "christian message" is. Religion teaches prejudice & alienation (but I will leave that to a different post... let's just say I have read the bible and don't agree with many of the teachings within).
"The understanding and consideration that he has been shown, from the leadership within his pack amazes me sometimes."
That is great! I do believe I mentioned (now a couple times, even) that individual packs may be very accepting. I believe the overall (which is what I was talking about to begin with) policy is a "don't ask/don't tell" one.
"If these are the evil Christians that are turning away the unholy and perverted, that you have pointed out, they are doing a good job at concealing it.
They don't conceal it at all... it is right in their values statements #5 & #12. And from what the woman in the first video I posted said they are to both say an oath and sign a contract/statement both of wich include an affirmation of a god. (I'm not positive on the signed piece, but I know the oath) I know a couple people who were/are involved in scouting. One is an atheist who basically didn't advertise he was because he enjoyed scouting (I have to comment that I don't think I would want to be part of a group that didn't want me as a member). The other is a lesbian. I at no time said there were not people of these classifications in scouting, I simply pointed out that the organization doesn't approve... My main point of issue was not if they discriminated or not (which they do, sorry, it is a fact) but that if they do they should not be allowed to use govt. school property or govt. funding.
Continued...
...Continued
ReplyDelete"No one has ever asked me whether or not I am a Christian, which I am not."
Back to the don't ask/don't tell policy. They do, however, have your child say an oath that affirms a god (I mentioned this a moment ago, but it deserves a highlighting)
"Yes, there are those individuals that you have taken the time to point out to us. But...at the same time, there are those individuals(and I choose to think it is the majority)that are involved in scouting because they see it as a place where their boys can go and learn things and values that are, overall, positive, in a world where they are becoming increasingly more and more difficult to find."
I totally agree with your statement here! But I was not referring to individuals or individual packs, but the organization as a large. Your decision to believe the majority is the side you agree with and relates to you is quite common. I would love to chose to agree with that belief, but as always I will wait for all the facts before I go with blind faith. I do believe that most people are good people, but good people can be misled by beliefs.
"please try to remember that prejudice is a many faceted thing and it doesn't always come at you from the direction that you are expecting it to come from. Don't let it come up behind you and hit you in the back of the head.
prejudice usually doesn't come right at you in the direction you are looking. That is why an awareness post like the one I made is important to help educate people on reality. Take the woman in the first video for example... she was blindsided by the prejudice of the scouts. to have the knowledge of their belief system, principals and agenda ahead of time could have helped her even if only emotionally.
One last note- from reading your reply I find it hard to believe you watched any of the videos I posted. You might want to take a few minutes and watch them, really watch them with an open mind. The Bullshit episode does a good job of pointing out facts in an entertaining way. I believe most of your questions were actually already answered within those videos. Don't get me wrong, I love a good discussion.
My opinion? This is a no-brainer. ANY organization which uses government property or accepts government money must abide by non-discrimination laws. The BSA does not do that. Consequently, I did not allow my son to join them.
ReplyDeleteI find it astounding that any organization which teaches hate as part of its philosophy is not only still in existence, but is a major group for our young men.
WORTH NOTING- the Girl Scouts and related groups do NOT hold the same policies of discrimination at all, but are in fact open and supportive of all people. That means you can still buy girlscout cookies, but you can't buy boyscout seedlings. (grinning)